Upul: By saying that there is no owner to anger, do you mean that it occurs spontaneously?Godwin: No. It is the result of a cause.Upul: You said that anger is something with no substance. But when there is anger, one feels as if there were an enormous energy. Anger and hatred can even lead to killing hundreds or thousands of people.Godwin: Until realization, all defilements can appear to be very strong. But after realization, there is nothing but emptiness.